(most sales were in the 1930s). In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Ancion Marx Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Wish I could be more helpful! Bernard Victor & Cie Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Bultot Jean Proof Marks or For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Belgian Liege gunmakers Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Britte Frres He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Bauduin Charles Baltus - Wilmotte Bookmark Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Dallas, Donald. "Any maker's name or place of origin? Cap Joseph Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. determination. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, - Galoppin [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Due to the Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Where did you find the Falla mark? A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. firearms. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Arendt Maurice Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Bertrand Antoine the 20th century. Braekers Charles & Cie Bronne Gustave Can you send me some, Ed? Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. How does it open? Thank you for Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Andr M.J. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. significance or purpose. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Please - no questions about your old guns. production. Bettonville - Fontaine Clment Charles Philibert We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Or any info? Bertrand Antoine & Fils Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). By Alain Daubresse. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. (copy right L.R. Serial Numbers. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Pictures would help! proof marks. Members . Quite old. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Berleur Michel As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. 1870-1898. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Can anybody shed some light here? It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. 1860-1870. Email: Info@hlebooks.com CLEMENT, J. have a great day! The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Do you have any information on them? These firearms The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. to share our findings by this means of communication. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. It is was built using a very thick 4 0 obj Thanks so much. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Christophe Louis So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Closset J.M. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. stream << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Serial Numbers. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. . Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Thank you Jerry. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. "Cueruy" could be the maker. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Bernimolin & Cap Collette Lopold it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Thanks! These The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Sorry! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Bury Jules. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Can be without star and ring. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. In addition to All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Home | Login | Register. Tel: 01707 709372; The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. 3 vols. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . I have not fired it. I'll test it very cautiously. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. The blue is rough but the action works. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. weapon. This will be an on going I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. this location now so you can return often. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Bertrand Joseph After years of looking at and trying Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. There are a number of Belgian Arms cie Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. Misc. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Very long barrel. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. Broqua & Scholberg Collard Henri - Roux Jacques Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Board Of Closset Louis Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C It's complete. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. No maker's name at all. I have pictures If you need them. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Anyone else know? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. thanks for the help so far. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Courard Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Hi, Jeremy. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Baron Emile Bernimolin Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Rich engraved. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Ever seen that? Bouquin Ad The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. firearms books bibliary. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt?
16 West 77th Street New York, Ny,
Articles O
