Asking for a friend. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. Seems a bit apologetic to me. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. They are being replaced with Glocks. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. These officers are not gunfighters. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. 3. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Its a novelty, its got issues! Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Good job! It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Look a fanboy. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. three changes to the original design. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Grow up, you aint all that! His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. And thats just my opinion. Plastic crap! The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. A fine of up to $10,000. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. . And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. I didnt even touch it! The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Whether or not the suits have merit. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. Ron, Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. You arent a gunfighter, either. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Where is this lightning striking twice? 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Funny how that works. Period. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. . And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. You couldnt ask questions. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. Kyle . He points to it in the video. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Companies stay silent TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. First off, no joke on me. Anyway around here they do. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. 2. how do I get one for my P320? Theyre the only product that is not. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. congrats. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Nope. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Excellent work. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution.
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